Heathrow Access Advisory Group

Aiming to make Heathrow the world's leading airport for accessibility and inclusion

info@haag.org.uk

27th September 2022 Minutes

by

Attendees

Liz Boadella Burton (WJ)
Keith Richards (HAAG Chair) 
Geraldine Lundy (Haag Member)
James Freemantle (CAA)
Jamie Pinney (HAL) 
Nicola Tibbles (HAL)
Chris Woods (HAAG Member) 
Ross Winn (AOC)
Libby Herbert (HAAG Member)
Monica Solanki (HAL)
Jerry Angrave (HAAG Member)
Helen Smith (HAAG Chair) 
Graham Race (HAAG Member)
Anne Thorpe (HAAG Member)
Daniel Platt (HAL)
Tanvi Vyas (HAAG Member)
Georgie Hill-Jones (HAAG Member)
Sophia Untersteggaber (CAA)
John Fish Wick (BA)
Marc Powell 

  • HAAG – Welcoming message and housekeeping.
  • Introductions
  • Liz: performance update (PowerPoint)
    • June – August
    • Introduced Notify – brief overview of what it is, near misses, illnesses, H&S
    • Training for bariatric PAX – brief overview
  • HAAG – these passengers take up more room, what do you do with passengers either side?
  • Liz – they usual book extra seats or we try to move other people to more comfortable seats
  • HAAG – some people who are disabled need more room 
  • Louise – please don’t be afraid to ask to move 
  • Liz – we can feed that back to the community
  • HAAG – do you have a limit on who you can’t assist?
  • Liz – explained our equipment has a maximum limit – we do assist but it takes a lot more people (8) or we reach out to the emergency services to assist. The team escalate if they feel they need to. On arrivals it’s hard to assess if we need additional support as airlines don’t always let us know beforehand.
  • Keith – under regulation, any guidance at all on assisting bariatric passengers?
  • Geraldine – Strict guidance for employees, safety limits on seating on aircraft – airlines don’t want to say no to passengers.
  • HAAG – must be moving and handling policies?
  • Liz – yes there are but we do have to move people
  • HAAG – you mentioned emergency services, are they already on the ground, do you use them?
  • Liz: yes
  • Liz performance update (PowerPoint continued)
    • Safety focus
  • HAAG – buggies – I’ve seen new buggies you can get a manual wheelchair on
  • Liz – some buggies have a rack you can put the chair on
  • HAAG – is there any that have the person in the chair on?
  • Liz – no the buggies don’t have the capabilities
  • HAAG – is this something you’ve looked at?
  • Liz – not with the supplier we use but we can bring this to them
  • Liz performance update (PowerPoint continued)
    • Resourcing
    • Explained acronyms
    • HAC
  • HAAG – has the cancellation of flights helped?
  • Liz – overall operation, yes. From PRM still seen significant number of PAX, due to media and Covid – we’ve had more in relation to overall PAX figures. Still trying to forecast correctly – working with HAL
  • HAAG – in your recruitment – how are you balancing getting people in and the right people for the role 
  • Liz: robust recruitment processes. You’d expect them to understand the role and during the assessment we do find people that don’t understand what’s going on. Provide videos to show them what we do and the role and what day to day looks like. Some then decide they don’t want the role, and many do. Recruitment, targets care homes on people who leave those roles. Students come for the summer and decide to stay. I think we have a good balance. Probation period (3 months). If after that we decide they’re not right for the role, they will leave this business.
  • HAAG – backed up WJ that they’ve got a good calibre of staff – enthusiastic, good feedback. Like any organisation there are a few bad apples, but it gets feedback and the team take action accordingly.
  • HAAG – What are the opportunities to tap into those who have enthusiasm?
  • Liz: yearly refreshers, we take the feedback that we get, positive and negative trends. We buddy people up – ensuring people learn from people like Rishi. Make sure we have the right equipment. Take feedback from our own team and colleagues. Refresher confirms good behaviours and addresses bad behaviours. Team have a voice, refreshers, looking at what didn’t work well. 
  • Jamie: celebrate successes! Ensuring the frontline team see that good behaviour is recognised. Motivation to do better.
  • HAAG – one thing that has really annoyed me – I have a photograph. People being challenged who have a disability. “you look like you can walk”, “you can walk with them”.  Or if someone has a lanyard, asking what’s wrong with them. They shouldn’t be being asked – it’s illegal
  • Liz: I will take that back to the teams and add it to the refresher as well.
  • HAAG – if there’s anything you need around autism for the refresher – please reach out, I am happy to help.
  • Liz: some of the media doesn’t help – abuse of the system.
  • HAAG – are disabled people involved in the training?
  • Liz – in previous years we have done. We’d had people come in a speak about their experiences. 
  • HAAG – Are there ways people get awards/recognised?
  • Liz: staff/team members/management/passengers
  • HAAG: Do you tell people if you do or do not have a hidden disability?
  • Liz: crew should know some info due to the manifest
  • HAAG – what about language issues?
  • Liz: work is being done around that, and how we communicate and how we ask people what kind of assistance they require. ASH trial. 
  • Liz performance update (power point)
    • PRM Demand
  • HAAG – has there been any measure of Pre-notification rates?
  • Jamie –  we’ve been doing a lot of work around that. We average around 60%. It’s good but we’d like it to be higher. We’re meeting with airlines that struggle with lower PN Rates. Some of the challenges are simple system errors. Trend is around destination not airline.
  • Keith :  any airlines that are worst performers?
  • Jamie: not off the top of my head – I would have to check
  • Nicola: overview on what we’re doing around PN rates and where we’d like to get to. A particular airline – on their website states you can get free assistance. We do deep dive sessions with the airlines.
  • HAAG – Is there a way we’re working with travel? APTA?
  • Nicola – at the beginning of the journey but yes we are starting to.
  • John – no clear communication on the deadlines of when people need to be notified. Can Heathrow put something to the airlines to explain the process?
  • Nicola: We did a PN workshop – we do have a pack that clearly states everything. Happy to recirculate.
  • Liz performance update (power point)
    • ECAC
  • HAAG – Do you get people off the plane who are PN first?
  • Jamie: We try to – we have to be dynamic.

Break

  • James on teams: 
  • HAAG – introduce James (CAA)
  • James: happy to take questions on what we are doing with airlines and airports. Overview of our tender processes. Had some concerns with previous airports and contracts. We don’t feel like disability groups have been involved enough and airlines involved too much. Quality standards should be set. Access forums are a good way of getting views of groups and we’re happy for airports to use these groups; and how they want to involve them. Best practice to involve HAAG as early as possible. Consumers need to be involved in setting SLA.
  • Libs: Will what Ann Fry is working on be shared? 
  • James: certainly. It’s been delayed but we are encouraging this to move forward over the winter.
  • James: As you know HAL has had an increase on people requesting assistance. Some others have seen an increase as well. We know it’s a challenge to work out forecast and resourcing. The DFT are interested in that and would like to keep track of the data. Published some guidance: CAP 2374 – to help passengers make their own way, e.g. being helped by friends/family. Limiting number of companions who are accompanying a PRM whilst not affecting the needs of that person. Challenging summer, many factors causing that. Generally sympathetic. Lots of reporting to drive improvements. We do expect improvement and to be tracking upwards. Still risks ahead – Oct, Dec, next summer. Last couple of months have been positive. 
  • Chris: Wayfinding – should there be a difference between wayfinding and access support?
  • James: It’s a difficult one. We can develop framework and work with airlines to help with this. Wayfinding will need to be provided – maybe not by the assistance program. Separated out. Something to work on. We need to address Pre-notification.
  • Keith: how do you expect airports to manage groups of people when only one needs assistance?
  • James: it’s tricky. Set out guidance and views, its okay to limit the numbers but be careful. WJ have some trials coming. 

Ross – AOC

  • Ross introduction – AOC
    • Airlines, members, and handlers
  • Ross: Need for HAL to engage with airlines. Regular sessions with HAL. PRM service has been inconsistent and we want to get foundations for success. Recognise we operate in a difficult environment. Challenge HAL to look outside the box, to understand what we can do differently. Worked on some of the Pre-notification piece. 
  • Chris: Are you talking to airlines about how they can make things better, e.g. inside cabins? 
  • Ross: conversations have been about on the ground. It’s something that hasn’t been touched upon but there’s definitely an opportunity. We need the service level to be more consistent to be able to look ahead. Look at other airports and their best practices. Having open and transparent conversations. Take into account the whole end to end journey – something we now need to start looking at. Be honest about challenges and when we don’t get things right. Airlines and HAL are really engaged and committed.
  • Ann: do you feedback your complaints? Do you look at your complaints?
  • Ross: yes, we escalate reoccurring issues. Airlines report to HAL. We share issues to learn from them. Looking into root causes for service failures. 
  • Ann: could you use the HAAG to help – walk around to see things that are being implemented?
  • Ross: yes, getting out and about to see it from a passenger’s perspective. I definitely welcome it and I feel we’d benefit. 
  • Geraldine: pleased to hear you comment that airlines are engaging. I’d like a collaboration – everyone working together.
  • Ross: everyone involved in stitching together. Getting engaged with all the stakeholders. Need more feedback from our passengers. To truly understand what they think and what their service has been like.
  • HAAG: Is there a call to action to talk to other groups in terms of SLAs?
  • Ross: absolutely, there is a working group next week. Work with 7 or 8 airlines, about what works and what we’d like to see. We want people to be delivering the service organically. If everyone is doing well we won’t be talking about SLAs.
  • Keith: some airlines are very interested, some airlines only care about what it costs. Can we find some way, of getting a higher level of engagement? Not being driven just by finance.
  • Ross: We are evolving to a much better set up. Finance groups and operational groups. Trying to get more people involved.
  • HAAG: Have you looked at comparing to other busy airports (internationally)
  • Ross: Gatwick, Dublin, Amsterdam. Listening to the people who work there and understand how they’ve overcome their challenges. Stitch together what works well. Look broader than just airports. Focus on where we want to get to.
  • HAAG: capability to collect and analyse feedback. Using our feedback to understand how we get to where we want to be? Are there plans to integrate the softer side into the surveys?
  • Ross: at the moment my focus has been about how to we increase the sample size rather than changing the question. I like mystery shoppers – it’s not something we’ve spoken about. Walk around and talk to our customers. Removing the lag from our feedback. 
  • Chris: HAAG audited the airports – people are move likely to be open to someone who isn’t from the airport. 
  • Ann: Having a pop-up stand and mingle about.
  • HAAG: not having people with clipboards.
  • Jamie: QSM overview. Recently we’ve changed how we show our data. Not just numbers but including what out customer are saying – good and bad. The issue at the moment is the sample size. 
  • Liz: I would welcome mystery shoppers. Different set of eyes.

Lunch

  • Keith: intro to afternoon
  • Jamie (power point)
    • T3 Arrivals Journey
    • Infrastructure issues
    • 4 stage plan – eliminating airside handover point
  • Jamie: won’t improve ECAC scores but will improve the service element.
  • HAAG – from an autism point of view, stage 3 is good as you know what’s going on. Less anxious. From neurodivergent aspect it will help a lot.
  • Jamie: explains mapping.
  • Helen: how do you spot your bags when you are sitting in that area?
  • Jamie: Working with airlines and technology to know when bags are delivered. You will be taken to get your bag.
  • Jamie: need to adapt approach to meet the needs of all of our passengers and our PRMS. 
  • HAAG: We need to put the customer and their needs first. Not segregating people. 
  • Jamie: I agree.
  • Geraldine: Waiting for the infrastructure of t3 to catch up. The passengers are stuck where they don’t know what’s going on. At least with this, they are in a position where they will understand what’s going on.
  • Jamie power point
    • Additional info
  • Jamie: implemented additional support host. Explained what they do.
  • Chris: mapping, good tech out there. Getting google in, to map the airport. 
  • Jamie: I have meeting with good maps, to explore this option. 

PRM Contract – SLAs 

  • Jamie: your ideas and comments on our current SLAs and where we can improve. What these SLAs should be. Run through current SLAs and then open to discussions.
    • 1-6 ECAC requirements – regulation
  • HAAG – what would happen if you got rid of notification
  • Jamie: possible increased performance, difficulties with planning the operation.
  • Discussions around self-mobilising to gate and how long you’ll wait at the gate to be put on the plane.
  • John: no current SLA about arrival at gate. We’ve asked to have an SLA to be put on to have assistance where passengers have to be at the gate for pre boarding. Issues with WCHC pax not being actual WCHC. 
  • Chris: issues with passengers and airlines around categories
  • Keith: issues with codes overall.
  • Chris: Suggestions on videos on how to show the difference of categories.
  • Monica: loss of meet an assist – causes increase of other assistance required
  • Liz: We need to know you’re here, to provide your assistance at the gate even if you can make your entire way to the gate.
  • Jerry: when booking assistance for my son, 90% of the time we don’t need it, sometimes we do. Having that reassurance knowing someone will be there if required. Why have we changed our acronym again?
  • Jamie: Explained it’s to be in line with regulation.
  • Jerry: we need to be inclusive and this needs to reflect that.
  • Jamie
    • 7-12 arrivals
  • Helen: can you miss your connection due to not being assisted.
  • John: yes, is does happen, but the airport sets minimum connection times. Not the airlines.
  • Jamie: if you self-mobilise from the gate and make yourself known later you’re an automatic failure.
  • Geraldine: is chocks the right timing.
  • John: yes, due to different airlines.
  • Liz: going back to the airport about minimum connection times
  • Graham: any way of differentiating the SLAS based on passenger codes. 45 minutes for some is just a huge deal breaker. Can we be more specific for some types of passengers.
  • Liz: difficult due to challenges
  • John: people don’t usually wait that long, it’s usually much quicker. Its when flights are remote.
  • Jerry: frustrations of passengers not knowing what’s going on, is there an SLA about acknowledging them and greeting them.
  • Jamie: made a note – need some work to promote that behaviour
  • Jamie power point
    • 13-18 connections
  • Chris: can we change the connection time to longer?
  • Jamie: if we change it, it changes for everyone not just PRMS. 
  • Jamie Power point
    • 19-20 customer service
  • General chat about putting service before ECAC. 
  • Libby: who can influence setting a target for feedback.
  • Jamie: currently doing work around how we deliver the feedback.
  • Chris: can we see a form? That’s why we’re here, to help.
  • Jamie: yes, we can.
  • John: the questions on based on what the CAA set.
  • HAAG: make sure the form is accessible for everyone
  • Jamie PowerPoint overview of the remaining SLA
    • Give feedback via email if we don’t cover it today
  • Geraldine: why is training not set at 100%
  • Helen: this could be due to LTS or maternity
  • Geraldine: can we then change the wording to meet 100% target.
  • HAAG: can you explain service failures
  • Liz/Jamie: missed flights, passenger injury, buggy accidents.

Break

  • Tom joining via teams and intro
  • Procured a BI platform that brings all our data to one warehouse. Gives us the space to create historical info. Looking at machine learning to help with planning. Looking at developing a first of its kind model about who will be on a flight regardless of notification status. Purple Door – app. Help with providing more or a tailored service. Flagging up flights ahead of time. All technical but with the outcome to focus of passenger service. 
  • Geraldine: pleased to hear about Purple Doors, if you go down that route are you confident that all the correct people will come to the table?
  • Tom: With how we do things now and what we’ve put in place we are confident. We’re doing a lot of work. We’ve had access to things we didn’t before. There’s work around iBeacons and where we can take that. We do believe it’s possible. Heathrow have been open and engaging.
  • Keith: how do you currently collect your data? 
  • Liz: pax books flight, goes into system, feeds into Ozion. Journey is done by agent PDA. Agent updates milestones. We’ve been using ibeacons to validate the data. Agents are told to comment if they get stuck or stopped for any reason. This new tech will help us understand how long things take, how many staff we need etc. It will help us utilise staff better. More efficient. 
  • Chris: do you want a wall of TVs showing where everyone is?
  • Liz: yes, absolutely
  • Tom: this will help us flag things immediately, such as: a normal journey taking a lot less time or a lot more time. Shift lengths being incorrect. It helps us address these things straight away. We can call agents straight away. 
  • Chris: if you can do this, it’s a game changer.
  • Jamie: it would completely transform our service.
  • HAAG: could we make this customer facing in some way?
  • Jamie: could we do something similar to ‘Uber’. You can communicate to the agent before they get there, adding that service level.
  • Tom: we can’t assume all our passengers want a PRM service. How do we have more of a bespoke service. We need to understand our passengers better.

AOB/Summary

  • Keith: Tunnel exercise?
  • Jamie: I will get back to you
  • Chris: Voice control wheelchair.
  • John: would it help people who self-mobilise who are traveling alone.
  • HAAG: is POD accessible?
  • Liz: I will find out.
  • Jamie: Nicola, has message to say who would we like to have involved in the tunnel trial.

End of meeting

Download these meeting minutes in PDF format